FTO Drivers Club, Western Australia

[New FTO Owner]

I purchased an FTO GPX recently. Since of late I have had starting problems with it. When it first starts each time when the engine is cool, the tachometer drops to zero and the engine dies. I repeat the process and generally the same thing happens again. Only when I start the third time it runs.
It never gave this problem when I first purchased it.

Also sometime I find that the engine "idle" rpm is about 500 or less, which does not help when I am idling on a hill. I have had the engine die on me several times when I come to a stop on a hill. I wonder if both problems are connected.

Someone said it could be the injection chip that's gone wrong. I have little knowledge of this car. Please help with info. Thanks.

Suresh

[marke]

Engine Idle should be around 700rpm once warm.

Try giving the car a little gas when you start it the first time to keep the rev's up, does it still die? It could be any number of reasons from blocked injectors to a bad stepper motor (am i right on this, i have a feeling i am).

The best thing to do would be to go get a good service from a reputable performance car place. You don't mention where you live, but if in perth, then crockenberg motors would be a good stop. If in sydney, ask around I guess, there are plenty of performance workshops in syd.

Mark

[marke]

PS by stepper motor I mean Idle Speed Controller, they are one in the same.

Mark

[Suresh]

Mark,
Thanks for the info. Yes I am in Perth. The FTO I purchased is the one Dave Whittber had previously. He is a close mate. Nice car barring this minor problem.

I have got in touch with Crockenberg Motors and was told that the problem is not serious and that one of the computer chips controlling the injection is faulty. This apparently is common from time to time in the FTOs.

Thanks again.
Suresh

[marke]

I havent heard of any common fault with an injector chip, but the stepper motor is a common problem.

Mark

[RichardH]

Hiya.

The one formally owned by Dave Wittber is indeed a nice 'un!

Mark has very likely hit the nail on the head about it being the ISC (stepper motor). The original problem was that Mitsubishi installed units that had an aluminium housing, and they acted like a heatsink. The internals cooked, and hello idling problems!

The replacement has a bakelite housing, and don't tend to fry so badly. This wasn't just an FTO problem... the same issue was present across a number of different Mitsy vehicles of the time. Duh!!


There are a number of sites that go into detail about the stepper motor issue. One of them was mentioned recently on Smartgroups. It was...

http://www.funky-fto.co.uk/idling.html

There's an Aussie company that supplies new stepper motors - cheaper than Mitsubishi ones - but I don't know much more than that. My own '95 GPX arrived with a replacement unit previously fitted. Their site is:

http://www.nardek.com.au/isc.htm

They've even got a techie page that has diagnosis info - you could always print this out and chuck it at an auto-electrician if you're not a demon with a multimeter!

http://www.nardek.com.au/testisc510-10.htm


Finally, and I hope the original authors of the forthcoming emails don't mind, but here's a nicely collated pile of stuff from SmartGroups... Thanks to all on there!

...

(ripped from older emails)
~ First Answer:
~ ------------------------------------------------------------------
~ Q. My car is lumpy and/or cuts out at idle (or I have a
~ faulty Idle Speed Controller)
~ A. The Idle Speed Controller is actually a stepper motor
~ that allows the engine ECU to control the speed of the
~ engine under a variety of different loads at idle (for
~ example when the air conditioning compressor is working). It
~ is incorporated into the throttle body assembly. If you
~ follow the black plastic air intake pipe from the air filter
~ up to the back of the engine, the bit where it fits onto is
~ the throttle body.
~ Remove the air intake pipe from the throttle body by
~ loosening the jubilee clip and pull the black air intake
~ pipe away from the metal inlet of the throttle body. You'll
~ now be able to see things a little better. The Idle Speed
~ Controller has a beige coloured plastic top. The controller
~ itself is bolted to the throttle body with two 8mm bolts.
~ Take off the electrical plug and then undo the bolts. DO NOT
~ remove the three screws holding the beige top on!
~ Once you've got the ISC in your hand, some parts may look
~ black because they have carbon deposits or other oily crap
~ stuck to it. You need to clean as much of this off as
~ possible - WD40 is a good and common degreaser. Re-assemble
~ it the same way you took it off.
~ While you've got the air intake pipe off, look inside and
~ through the air inlet you'll be able to see a copper
~ coloured valve with a spindle in the middle. Clean all
~ around this area so it's nice and shiny again!
~
~ ENGINE/ECU RESET
~ When you've got EVERYTHING back together, you may find that
~ an ECU reset can help too - just disconnect the negative
~ battery lead for over 10 minutes.
~
~
~ ------------------------------------------------------------------
~ Idling - hmmm... I'm a bit of an expert on this at the
~ moment - due to my
~ own idling problems. Summarised as follows:
~
~
~ Brief background : The ISC (Idle Speed Controller) is a
~ small stepper motor,
~ capable of moving up to 120 steps, bolted to the side of the
~ throttle body.
~ It controls the opening and closing of the idle butterfly,
~ which obviously
~ should open when the engine is cold, and close completely
~ when warm and
~ under normal load (it will open if the engine is loaded,
~ with either heavy
~ alternator load or aircon, etc.). It's normally the cause of idling
~ problems.
~
~ Problems (1) : The 120 steps appears to be a notional figure
~ rather than an
~ actual - ie 0 is not closed and 120 fully open. Depending on
~ the car, how it
~ was serviced and whether this 'steps' figure has been reset,
~ many FTOs
~ typically have around the 40 'steps' mark as fully closed.
~ Problems can
~ arise when the fully closed 'steps' gets too high, as the
~ ECU will only step
~ up to 120 max. Therefore if the fully closed number of steps
~ is, say, 80 you
~ only have 40 steps until max - which will only partially
~ open the idle
~ butterfly and hence the car will not idle when very cold or
~ under very heavy
~ load. Apparently a Mitsi service should reset this (steps
~ figure to a lower
~ value), providing they've got the kit to do it.
~
~ Problems (2) : The ISC gets covered in black carbon deposits
~ which prevents
~ it working properly - typically causing hunting at idle and
~ general eratic
~ idling. Remove it (two bolts hold it to the throttle body)
~ clean the hell
~ out of it (WD40 or something), clean the hole in the
~ throttle body where it
~ fits and finally clean and lubricate the main throttle butterfly and
~ interior of the throttle body just for good measure.
~
~ Problems (3) : The ECU needs to 'learn' where the idle point
~ is - so an ECU
~ reset can sometimes help to force it to relearn!
~
~ Problems (4) : Due to the position of the ISC and the wiring
~ loom, the wires
~ to the ISC are prone to fracture and complete breakage.
~ Simply pulling back
~ the black plastic looming material on the six wire connector
~ should show
~ whether all wires are in fine fettle. If you doubt the
~ continuity of the
~ wires, the Owners Club have the Electrical manual and it's
~ not TOO difficult
~ to trace all 6 wires on the connector back to the 1st ECU
~ connector and one
~ of the junction blocks, both in the passenger footwell.
~
~ Problems (5) : Low idling, but everything else is OK - just
~ need to pump up
~ the idle. The throttle body has a recessed idle screw, on
~ the top - towards
~ the front, normally covered by a very obvious circular black
~ rubber dust cap
~ (about half an inch in diameter). Simply remove the dust
~ cap, and turn the
~ screw in or out to increase or decrease the idle speed.
~
~ I had a broken wire on mine, about 1/4 inch from the damn
~ ISC connector -
~ fun piece of soldering, I can tell ya!



Hope that lot helps!!!

Having said all that, advice from Mal Crockenberg isn't to be ignored! Before shelling out on a new ISC, why not see if someone on here is willing to perform a swap for a couple of days between your ISC and theirs... It could save you hundreds of bucks and much heartache if the exact same thing happens with a known "good" unit on the car...

- Rich

[New FTO Owner]

Hi Richard and Mark,

Thanks for all the info. Mark was right it was the stepper motor. Malcolm did a wonderful job on the car ..... bit of adjustments here and there and she runs like a panther unleashed. Gifted hands that man has.

Maybe we can meet sometime for a drink or something.

Cheers,
Suresh

[RichardH]

Sounds good! Glad it's sorted...

- Rich

[Zan]

Hey Suresh,
can you give me in idea of how much it cost you?

I've been meaning to get a new one but if it works out cheaper going through Malcom then I'll be doing just that.

cheers,
Zan